Seeking common religious ground in Rome

During Spring Break, a group of 20 undergraduate and graduate students spent 10 days in Rome on a trip sponsored by the campus Presbyterian ministry. Annie Gaines '03, a Methodist from East Palatka, Fla., and Rachel Smith '03, a Jew from Flushing, N.Y., were among the participants. They recently sat down with 'Prince' Senior Writer Emma Soichet '02.

'Prince': Was the Vatican the highlight of the trip? Did the trip revolve around it?

Smith: No, I would say we spent a day or two in the Vatican. But we were in the Vatican for the Sunday Mass of the Pope's apology for the sins of the church throughout history as part of the new millennium. One part of the apology was specifically directed at Jews, and so it was pretty amazing to be there as probably one of the few Jewish people in the Vatican to actually hear it on behalf, I guess, of everyone else. That was cool for me.

P: What was it like going to the Pope's Mass as a Protestant? Did it signify anything for you?

Gaines: It was definitely significant, especially seeing how much it meant to the people on the trip who were Catholic and seeing how much the apology meant to the Jews on our trip. It was amazing to see how overwhelmed people were to actually be there in the pews and praying at the holy door and to see people who had dedicated their lives to their faith be so grateful for the opportunity to celebrate Mass with the Pope.

P: Did it ever come into play that you all came from different religions and that you were not one unified group?

S: Well, people were taking pictures during the Mass, and I don't really know if that is appropriate. I think that was a bit strange for some people, and I also thought that it was amazing as a Jewish person to hear the apology, but [another Jewish student] and I started talking. I said, "Wasn't it amazing?" and he said, "Well, was it enough? Was the apology really a good apology?" It was kind of vague, I would say, so I guess there was definitely for me a tension between being amazed and the fact that this happened at all and realizing that this Pope is not the person who did anything wrong. I think for an institution this is a very difficult thing to do.

P: Was there any conversation between the different religious groups about the apology?

S: Oh yes. On the way back, in the subway and for the rest of the day we were talking about what it means to forgive. I mean, in Christianity, I think it is the ideal that there is really nothing that is unforgiveable. With Judaism, I am not so sure that that is the fact. It's definitely not stressed as much, whether or not that is an ideal. I think it would be OK in Judaism to say that there are things that are not forgiveable, and possibly things that the Church did would fall into that category. So there is definitely a different sort of mind-set between the two.

P: Did you feel any sort of back and forth?

G: I would definitely say that there are differences between Jews and Christianity, like you said, about how Jews feel there are some things that are unforgiveable. But, I think an important part of Christianity is how we ask God to forgive us.

S: We also went to the old Jewish Ghetto and we went to the synagogue services on a Friday night.

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P: Was it strange being one of the only Jews on the trip at the service?

S: Yes, it was also weird for me because I'm not Orthodox, I'm Conservative. Being in a different country makes it different, and then it was a different sect of Judaism. And also, women are separated in the Orthodox service . . . and we were on the second floor and very high up. It was hard to hear. I'm not used to that. I'm used to being an equal participant. It was even more difficult because here are all these people who have not seen a Jewish service at all, and this is their first exposure.

P: Did you follow the service?

G: I don't think I followed it at all. But it was interesting seeing them separated and then observing the Italian Jewish women. It was very different from the services that I am used to. We couldn't see what was going on downstairs, and just watching only the women, and there were children running around upstairs. It seemed like a social scene because they were talking while the prayers were going on.

P: What was the Mass like?

G: That was a really unique experience. Outside, the whole courtyard is filled with people, and they have signs and they are yelling.

S: The entire mass is broadcasted outside, and so it was packed when we came out.

P: Did you get up close?

S: We were lucky because we were sitting behind the alter, and we were within 20 feet of the Pope . . . One of the interesting things for me was the service itself wouldn't move me to tears. But the fact that the Pope was there and this was such a historic event and knowing all the emotions behind that, maybe it would.