Q&A: Nancy Duff Campbell, founder of National Women’s Law Center

Nancy Duff Campbell, co-president and founder of the National Women’s Law Center, spoke about women’s economic issues in a lecture on Wednesday. Before the lecture, she sat down with The Daily Princetonian to talk about economic issues, LGBTQ+ rights and reclaiming the term “feminist.”

Daily Princetonian:What exactly will you be talking about today?

Nancy Duff Campbell: I’m mostly going to be talking about economic issues and how they affect women, particularly low-income women and how that affects their families, and why we need what I’m calling a women’s economic agenda. Women’s economic issues are getting some saliency in the country. Hopefully, in the political campaign to come, in a way, there’s going to be real progress.

DP: What kind of economic issues will you be talking about?

NDC: I’ll be talking about the fact that women still don’t have equal pay, that there is still disparity between men and women, including in the low-wage workforce, where you wouldn’t think there was a pay disparity. Then talking about the kinds of solutions involving reduced pay disparities and increasing the minimum wage: women are two-thirds of the minimum wage workforce ... Why women need supports like child care and child care assistance … I’m going to lay out problems in a larger range of problems for women, like reproductive rights and in areas like education. My talk is a part of a larger report that the National Women’s Law Center did on these issues for women.

DP: What has been your biggest achievement?

NDC: It’s very hard to answer that question. In many respects, I think that the fact that we have created a center that can address so many of these issues and can make a difference. We started in 1972 … We’ve been involved in a whole range of cases since Title IX was passed … We set out to cover, first of all, sexual harassment, secondly, employment issues, in the light of Title IX. We worked very hard for what was really, since World War II, the first national childcare program. We’ve been working since then to increase the funding for that program and to increase the quality of care it provides, and there’s still a lot of challenges with childcare, obviously, but the fact that we have a program and that we’ve been building on it is still a significant step forward, especially in light of these economic issues I’m going to be talking about today.

DP: There’s been a trend nationally of people refusing and side-stepping the term “feminist,” due to negative connotations. Can you talk a bit about how you feel about that?

NDC: Well, I’m a feminist, and there’s no “but” behind that. In fact, I’m kind of perplexed by why this has happened. I think in the early days, in the second wave of feminism — late 1960s and early 1970s — you know, bra burning and other things kind of turned people off, in terms of women asserting their rights, but you know, it’s strange that it seems to be continuing in some quarters. I’m hoping that we’re going to take back the word. In fact, I was at the Women’s Center yesterday and they gave me a shirt with the word “Feminist” on the front, so I’m going to be wearing that everywhere.

DP: What advice would you give to young women who are pursuing law or thinking about pursuing law?

NDC: I think it’s a great career; it’s been a great career for me. I think that, obviously, you should be thinking about why you’re doing it. There are a lot of ways in which you can work that aren’t necessarily traditional in practicing law, and that’s one of the benefits of a law degree, I think, because, there are many public policy jobs, there are many advocacy jobs … Making change can happen in a lot of ways … No matter what you’re doing in your life, think about what you can do to benefit people beyond your sphere. Figure out what the best way is to do that.

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DP: You’ve done a lot of work in your career, but the work is never done. We have to keep moving forward. What is your next step? What is the next big issue you’d like to tackle?

NDC: That’s a hard one, also. One of the things we try to do is to be opportunistic about the issues we try to take on, so that when something is becoming an issue or an issue we think that there is a possibility of making change, thinking about how that issue affects women, for example, and what we, in our particular niche, can do to further the issue. So, the things we’ve been doing for the past year, for example, is building on the progress that is being made for gay, lesbian and transgender rights. Laws are being made by using the laws we use to outlaw sexual discrimination — in that, discriminating based on sexual identity or orientation is using the same kinds of sexual stereotypes that courts have forbidden under the laws that protect against sex discrimination. We’ve been working in a coalition in Washington particularly building on the same sex marriage case to look at the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and adding to it, specific protections against this kind of discrimination, but also to preserve and expand upon the laws that are there against sex discrimination. So that’s been challenging and an exciting way to work with new allies. Another thing we’ve been involved with is opening up a whole new range of jobs in the military for women, particularly jobs in combat. There is an administrative determination a few years ago that stated that all jobs are going to be available to women starting Jan. 1 … So we’ve got a few more months until this goes into effect, and we’re working to make sure that happens and that it’s implemented effectively … If women can fly a plane and can participate in ground combat, then it’s hard to argue that there’s anything that they can’t do … Then, of course, we’re working on pay equity, childcare issues, raising the minimum wage, there’s a whole host of issues on our plate. We’re also looking more closely at criminal justice issues and how they affect women because that’s also been so much in the news. There are just as many women as men in prison, also for low-level drug offenses and some even lower offenses, and we’re looking at what can be done about that for women in that situation, too. It’s a pretty full list.

DP: Who was your role model when you grew up? Who pushed you to pursue law?

NDC: It’s interesting because in a sense, my parents were my role models. They’re not lawyers, they have nothing to do with the law … We grew up in a relatively conservative area of Indiana, but my parents were progressive and they were very instrumental in teaching us about civil rights and equality, and treatment of everyone equally was and is. I was involved in the civil rights movement starting in high school, which they encouraged … They encouraged my brother, my sister and me to follow our dreams and to be what we wanted to be … As I grow older, I have more and more role models, of course.

DP: You defied the stereotype that women who have a career can’t have a family and can’t be successful in the domestic sphere. For women out there who are trying to reclaim this identity of being a mother and a career woman, what would you say to them, especially when they face criticism from both sides of the argument?

NDC: First of all, my credo is that “everyone should live up to their potential,” and that means that if you want to have a family, you should, and if you don’t, you shouldn’t. But it’s hard. It’s definitely hard, especially for low-income women who don’t have both the economic and other supports that they need to take care of their families and to support them, so I think that we need more attention to the public policies that will support women and men. I think the younger generation is much better about this than my generation. There’s been a lot of change in how people are viewing their future prospects and how to share in these responsibilities … Society has a responsibility to make use of its “person power” in a whole range of ways, so we really need to change our public policy so that it will be easier for men and women to both have families and success.