Questions and answers with Prof. Bogan

'Prince' reporter Stirling Fiss recently sat down with Elizabeth Bogan, an economics professor and the former chair of the University Advisory Committee on Athletics, to discuss athletics and academics at Princeton.

Daily Princetonian: Because most students do not have much access to the University Advisory Committee on Athletics, would you describe a bit of what the committee's purpose is?

Elizabeth Bogan: The committee itself consists of the Director of Athletics and some people he asks to sit with the committee. Then there are staff representatives, and I think there's even an alumni representative, and then students. So it's a very good university community-wide program. And the aim is to assist the athletic program, to be supportive of the athletic program, but it's also to be a bit of a watchdog on the relationship of the academics and athletic side of the university.

DP: Have there ever been any major issues that have been brought before the committee that were easily mediated by the group?

EB: When I was chair of the committee, one of the issues that came up was that some faculty members had switched to having evening courses at 7:00 instead of 7:30. I was able to make a very sincere argument that we want our athletes to be able to fully participate in the academic program, and they need to have a chance to grab dinner before they do that. So this wasn't something that was trying to be favoring athletes; it was trying to make it possible for our athletes to participate in evening courses without being at a disadvantage.

DP: While you were the chair of the advisory committee, the athletic department instituted the Academic-Athletic Fellows program. How do you feel about that program?

EB: Many of us believe in the traditional and broad aspect of education, that athletics is not just about the body. It's also about the mind. And to many of us on the faculty here at Princeton, it is very important that it stays part of an integrated thing. I don't buy this dichotomy about dumb jocks — that's nonsense. There are some very smart jocks, and they should have to make a choice that in order to have serious varsity athletic program they have to go to a less-intellectually based school. That's just a shame. I think that the Athletic Committee helps the different constituencies to understand issues of how do we have a serious, top-ranked academic program and a serious, top-ranked athletic program. And those are not necessarily in conflict. I want to see us offering fantastic athletic programs to gifted academics who are also athletic.

DP: How did you become involved with the Committee? Did you volunteer to be a liaison between the faculty and the athletic department?

EB: I was nominated by someone on the faculty. And I was perfectly willing to do it. Perhaps the nomination came from having complained about an advisee of mine that I did not think had gotten into Princeton correctly. I was very disappointed with the particular athlete I had as an advisee. So I was kind of making negative noises about the program, and frankly I consider myself one of those who was enlightened by being in this new constituency.

DP: Have you heard any feedback from the students about the fellows program?

EB: I think that the students are quite happy with it. I do serve as a fellow to the crew team, and I've certainly enjoyed it. It's a program of faculty being involved so they understand the [athletic] programs. For example, if you're a faculty fellow and someone at lunch in your department says "Gee, the kids are going away to a game on a Friday. Yes that's been approved through the university process and yes they are allowed to miss a class without being given any credit off for it." Any of these kinds of things that increase awareness and communication tends to prevent disasters from happening because it means that there are a lot of faculty around who know a lot of coaches and if there is a misunderstanding it can be picked up and corrected quickly. But you can't expect the coaches to support the faculty in what we're trying to do if we're not sensitive to what they're trying to do. So they are different spheres, but they're both important spheres for the students' lives.

DP: Do you think it's unfair to single out athletes as needing special involvement from the faculty to keep them integrated into the academic program? What about people who participate in the band or in a dance group on campus?

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EB: I think that's somewhat a different animal. And also they don't tend to fall under the criticism. Like if someone is writing for the 'Prince' 24 hours a day, that might be a problem for their academic program. But people don't just tend to get up and automatically say, 'dumb writers.' But the dumb jock syndrome is really a bit of a problem. And I really think there is much more having to realize why athletics are an important part of a top-academic institution. And to me, that's the difference. And after reading President Bowen's book, "The Game of Life," cover to cover, I don't think that's true at Princeton.

DP: So how many athletic events do you think you've attended? If you had to guess at a number?

EB: Hundreds of hundreds! I don't know. I go to most of, well, probably all of the home crew races. And there are a lot of hockey games, both men's and women's. I've definitely been one of about 30 fans many times at Baker for the women's games. They're really good. It's because it's not a sport that many people think of as a women's sport. I think that women's hockey is very exciting, but the world is not with me there on that yet. And I've been to a lot of soccer games. And this is not a varsity sport, but another one that I was involved with a lot, not so much in recent years but in the 90s, I used to go to women's rugby. So I go to some football games, some volleyball games. There have been swim meets I've been to.

DP: Would you say that crew is your favorite sport because of your sons [both of whom rowed in college]?

EB: Well yes, that would probably be it. I think as a spectator sport, lacrosse is actually my favorite. I've been to quite a few of their games, and I really enjoy it every time. I will tell you, very sincerely, I get a huge personal pleasure from knowing a student in a complete academic setting, knowing how quickly they learn, how interested they are in what's near and dear to me, economics, and then there's this other side that's just wonderful.

Some people just like games, [but] I must confess I never go to pro games; I don't give a hoot about pro games. I go to Princeton games because I love to see my students doing something else. I also go, as I did last night, to Theater-Intime, because one of my students was in the cast [of Rumors]. I very much enjoy going to orchestra performances; one of my advisees plays the cello. Different people have different ways in which they are connected to things. And to me, one of the nicest ways to be entertained to go watch students I know from their interest in economics do something at a really high level of talent. I think it's just great that they are such multifaceted kids. I very much enjoy the multidimensionality of our students, and it's part of what I take pride in from being here.