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E-PrinceThis board writes frequently about grade deflation, from the USG’s approach to the issue to the transparency of the policy. But it has been several years since we have revisited our position on whether or not grade deflation should ...(back to the article)
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@the dissenters
The school functioned for 250 years without setting up a strict quantitative percentile for what constitutes "rigorous" A grade work. Why does it need it now?
Well, that's not true. I mean, you're right Princeton didn't set percentiles for 250 years, but then Princeton didn't even have "A"s at all for many of those years. In the early 20th century, for instance, there was a 1-7 grading scale. Also, 250 years ago Princeton was basically a Presbyterian theological school, and it wasn't called Princeton, and students only studied classics, and were only men, and often hadn't completed high school, and half of them went on to be ministers. So -- what is your point?
In any event -- speaking as a recent alum, the amount of complaining that students seem to do about grade deflation has gotten pretty obnoxious and made it relatively painful to try to read the Prince. It's a grading system. Different schools have different grading systems. It's all kind of arbitrary anyway. It's not like you're going to end up living on the street because you got a few B's at Princeton. If you think there was some earlier time when every Princeton student got all A's and subsequently got everything they wanted after graduating, then you're deluded. If an effect of grade deflation is to ensure that students who only care about accumulating A's on their transcript no longer go to Princeton, then I would think it a resounding success.
Another article? Give it up! This is not going to go away any time soon, probably not until Malkiel retires and someone else who can actually make a change comes into power. Complaining about it in the newspaper is 1) not news and 2) will do nothing to resolve the issue.
Great editorial, well-written and hits all the key points - especially about inhibiting academic exploration and the detrimental effects when it comes to job search/grad schools.
Shirley, are you listening? Do you even care about students outside the first quintile?
As an alum who has looked at several thousand PU resumes over the years, I strongly support the grading policy:
We know what the difficult majors and classes are, and in those classes, either:
a) all the students are really good, in which case a B+ is grade that tells me that you learned the material, but weren't the best in the class. There is no limit on the number of B-grades, so decent (but not stellar) students should still have a GPA above 3.0.
b) Not all students are really good, in which case a student's combination of ability and drive tends to produce higher grades (e.g. COS 126)
So a decent GPA in a tough department really signals something.
Under the old policy, however, this was not true in the weaker departments.
Consider ECO 102. This is basically high-school math, and the actual learning can be easily accomplished in 5-10 hours of work. Realistically, any student that tries hard can learn all of the material, and under the old (un-normed) system, could get an A. An entire program of study could be designed with similar such courses, and at the end of the student's career, a high GPA would result without corresponding distinction in learning, scholarship, or independent research.
I used to see dozens of resumes with a 3.7 GPA in a less-stressful department, and there appeared to be no correlation between having a high (but not perfect) GPA and scholarship, problem-solving, intelligence, or motivation. It was like basing a GPA on the results of 40 consecutive motor vehicles driver's license tests.
Under the new system, the faculty at least have an incentive to design harder and tougher courses that really force the students to think hard and learn interesting material. The middle-of-the-road students have to compete for the 35% As, which reduces the number of "fluff" resumes, and it takes the option of the low-work high-GPA major off the table for the majority of students.
Finally:
There is no magic GPA cutoff, and resumes are typically sorted per school -- by the time you are competing against people from other schools, we've already interviewed you 5+ times, and don't care what your GPA was. We hire for potential, skills, interests, drive, and ability to communicate, and your GPA is a very poor predictor of most these things.
I never quite understood the notion that we need to protect Princetonians' fragile psyches from the stresses of grade deflation. Life is stressful and competitive and it will be more than a letter on your transcript that you'll compete for when you're in the real world. Also, I think that if recent alumni are saying it's ok... it's ok!
And it's not deflation. It's giving people what they deserve! We can't all keep feeling like we're entitled to A's just because we were A students in high school.
"If an effect of grade deflation is to ensure that students who only care about accumulating A's on their transcript no longer go to Princeton, then I would think it a resounding success."
Clap Clap Clap
I and many of my colleagues have always deplored this obsession with 'grade deflation' and its mindless application to every field, no matter what the differences among them. It has also had exactly the results we feared: grade grubbing, selection of courses according to street advice, penalties for junior professors, and a misplaced emphasis on grades instead of education which is about intellectual curiosity and learning. It is also deeply insulting to faculty (the vote on this was hardly honest). True, until Malkiel is finally finally replaced (oh dear, when will that be?), I doubt that anything meaningful will happen. In the meantime, consider how much else in the College needs rethinking (instead of focusing on grade deflation): distribution requirements, writing program, and other issues that deserve serious discussion. Except for the major, students get a smattering of this and that without any clear educational policy for at least a form of 'general education' that would give all Princeton students some common ground.
As an alum, you have much greater familiarity with Princeton's grading practices than do most employers. A great deal of potential employers neither have Princeton alums onboard nor have familiarity with Princeton's grading practices, hence a significant, legitimate problem with grade deflation.
@professor at Princeton
Can we get more details on the vote and why it was "hardly honest" as you have put it?