The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has ruled in favor of the University after reviewing a complaint filed on June 6 by Public Safety's Fraternal Orders of Police (FOP) union. OSHA closed the case on June 24 after ruling ...(back to the article)
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Your point is well taken Mr Wintroub. The same debate came up after Virginia tech, should teachers be armed. We know that will never happen. The reality is that the best responder are the people who know the community and more importantly the buildings. Every school shooting ends in minutes and every minute means more folks die. Getting in and getting to the attacker is the most effective way of neutralizing the situation. So far the culprits are committing suicide, but the fact they do may be directly attributed to armed officers closing in on the position. If that in itself makes the culprit kill himself rather then hunting down others, then thats a plus. But one problem. If you dont know the buildings, and the locals do not, you can waste a serious amount of time running into a wall you didnt expect or discovering an escape route you have no knowledge of! Virginia tech PD trained with the locals. That made a huge difference! The relationship was there prior to the shootings. Right now how will the local PD responders figure out the right route? They wont because Public Safety wont be there to respond. Its just plain sad.
The "swiftness of response" argument applies more to students, faculty, and staff than to just Public Safety. If you are caught in a situation where you need lethal force to protect yourself or your colleagues, alerting an armed Public Safety and then waiting for them to arrive is going to be as too-little-too-late as alerting them, waiting for them to alert town cops, and then waiting for them to arrive. When a shooter is going room to room popping people, the quickest and surest end to the "situation" is having armed, skilled Refuse To Be A Victim types in the rooms.
But the U's stance on carrying on campus is a secondary issue at Princeton. The primary problem is New Jersey's firearm laws, including those that make it just about impossible to get a permit to carry. Arming at least the campus cops would help a little in remedying the current situation in which only the bad guys have guns.
Princeton is desperately trying to hold on to tradition, and the reality is they dont want guns because they believe it says that Princeton has changed and its no longer a safe campus. The reality is this attitude will get someone hurt; it will happen eventually. The whole concept of hurting the relationship between the officers and students is just a plain lie. This is the only contrived answer they can come up with that they believe it can not be disputed because it is sounds so caring. Well the relationship will be damaged when Public Safety cant respond and the local Police dont have a clue how to reach the person in need. Responding to dangerous situations or potentially dangerous situations is no problem for those who sit behind the ivy walls, but its different when you are the one out there wondering if you are going to get shot when you are stopping some suspicious person in the middle of the night. The concept that the local Police can respond for an armed attacker is a day late and a dollar short when a gun is pulled on an officer in the field. Its just too late to call. You cant ask the assailant to wait for the armed Police, you just get shot. But who cares about those Public Safety guys anyway? They arent anyone really important or valued are they? When the time comes and the municipal Police are called to respond to an armed assailant you better hope they know where the J wing is, or LTL, or Wu or Hargadon hall, or any number of places that the locals have no clue about, wouldnt find it, and wouldnt reach the person in need in time. Overall its just so very very sad that such a prestigious institution, who says they are in the service of all nations, cares so little about one of their own just because of "image". In reality it puts Princeton at the bottom of the Ivy League for having such a cavalier attitude about the safety of its own community. Just keep rolling the dice that no one will get hurt, odds are it wont happen here. Its not your life thats being bet so its no big deal is it? Think about it when you are facing the press trying to explain why someone was killed or injured because you care about tradition or relationships, and so the potential student goes to Harvard or Yale or Penn or Cornell because their Police are equipped and can respond to any situation.
I've seen people asking on a couple of these boards now why I feel so strongly about this issue, so let me just lay my cards out on the table: As President of Charter, I worked very closely with Public Safety police officers on a number of issues, and I've grown over time to really respect the job they do. We have a campus police department of dedicated professionals, and I think that they often don't get the credit they deserve. Their primary mission isn't busting parties and doing all the other stuff that pisses students off, it's making sure that the Princeton community is safe. Regardless of what most students may think, there is crime in Princeton, much of it drug-related. Gang-related break-ins and violent incidents on campus are on the rise; when MS-13 and the Bloods seem to be viewing campus as their "turf", I think it's quite clear we've got a real problem. Not arming our police officers is just asking for trouble in my mind.
Do people even get mugged in Princeton? As far as I can tell, the worst that usually happens is funky smells from the Chem building and people pulling pranks on Whitman kids...
But the (trained-as-police) Public Safety officers should have guns, since they have all the other equipment anyway.
Finally Princeton eclipses it's superiority complex with a not just an elitist, but a ridiculous development: police officers without guns.
Have fun getting mugged. Criminals are probably setting up shop already for he fall.
Yay. While Public Safety undeniably knows the campus better, how are the police going to get on campus? Through one of the gates. Who are at the gates? Public safety officers. They can ride with, ride in front, etc.. I've seen it done. It's not rocket science. Knowing the campus better is not a reason for them to have guns.
Will, I'm just wondering because as I've followed news on this issue, you always comment strongly in favor of arming public safety. Why do you care so much about this one issue? Is it a matter of principle? Or do you really believe that we're all in danger without an armed public safety department? This is not meant to be snarky... I'm really just curious... what's your beef?
Since the university is where students & teaching professionals meet and share.Its more appropriate and the environment is more conducive for "trial-run" certain innovative ideas.
Please use "COP-community-on-patrol" . This is both a participative and sharing concept.By involving the student population on the campus & hostel residents,the implementation of the program would yield results.The impact would generate unbelievable dividends.Have confidence, please give it a try, you've nothing to lose.In fact you stand to gain and benefit from such venture.Cheers! keep it up folks,you do have good listeners over here.Regards, Ricky
What level of cooperativeness is there? When they work the same details, do they ever work togeteher. Answer is no, they work with only their own department. It would make some sense when at on the the outdoor concerts, or athletic games for some of them to work together but they don't. Also the administration between the borough police and public safety do not get along well at all.