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E-PrinceIn the days after my last column, "How to be a feminist without anyone knowing" appeared, I experienced dozens of pleasant surprises: I had no idea that Princeton was teeming with feminists, some of them keeping their feminism secret and ...(back to the article)
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My man is the best feminist I know! Wouldn't have it any other way. Also, Chloe, I think you have erred in reducing male feminism to understanding the difference between porn and reality. There's so much more to it (duh). A male feminist needs to support his significant other's career, treat her as the intellectual equal that she is, share familial decision-making, and so much more. Anyway, I think, as you've recognized, these guys are actually quite prevalent at Princeton, even if they don't shout out of their gothic dorms "I am a feminist!"
Couldn't you say all of those exact same things about how men feel pressured to fit into the popular-culture driven stereotype of what a contemporary man should look like and act like? By talking about this purely in terms of women, you are perpetuating dangerous and misleading gender stereotypes. By ignoring a goal of equality of the genders, you are being essentially anti-Feminist.
Chloe, you ignored most of the comments on your last article--only TWO people commented to say that men can be feminists. Most of the comments were from men who felt pressured to fit into gender roles--and no women were addressing this. Why should men let women break stereotypical gender roles when MANY women still expect men to be the primary breadwinner in the family; to go to war; to withstand more pain than perhaps women would be expected to withstand; to not hit women (hitting is wrong in all cases, but TV shows frequently show women hitting men as something acceptable...i.e. everybody loves raymond, seinfeld)...not all women think like this at all, but many more women constrain men into gender roles than men constrain women...in the US at least.
John, I think you make some good points. But I don't think you need to make it a battle between which sex is most constrained to traditional roles. The truth is, we all are and it's unfortunate. And I think Chloe may have inadvertantly pereptuated that problem with this column.
I disagree with Chloe here -- I don't think there's any room in a feminist mindset to allow pornography. True feminism should condemn pornography because it encourages men to envisage women as primarily sexual, and only secondarily objects of more meaningful care. Even worse, porn portrays women being instrumentalized...having their bodies used as a source of gratification. It's always unethical to "use" people's bodies for things like this, because there's much more to a person than her body. Keep in mind, too, that the vast majority of pornographic actresses were sexually abused at some point, and pornography only serves to increase that.
I couldn't agree more with Disagree. When women use their body as "a source of gratification," men may get the wrongheaded notion that sex can be fun and pleasurable for both partners. This may confuse men into forgetting that God has decreed that sex is only for baby-making and all other reasons to have intercourse and/or use positions other than missionary style is inherently sinful.
Disagree, why do you think porn disrespects women more than men? I'd say it's pretty equal.
i'm a girl. i watch porn. how do you plan to deal with that, "Disagree"?
i agree with "Board"... porn objectifies both sexes, and as long as it's consensual, there's no exploitation going on. anytime you see a movie and say, wow [insert favorite movie star here] is so hot in this, you are objectifying that person. how is it any worse if that person happens to be nude? the "actors" have agreed to perform and are being compensated fairly.
The gender of a porn-user doesn't change the ethical situation at hand. Also, issues like monetary compensation, the consensual status of sex, or equal-opportunity exploitation have no role in the discussion here. They're side issues, and have no bearing on whether or not pornography itself is wrong or right. Girl and Board, I think what you're talking about here is the issue of whether or not pornography should be *legal.* That's an entirely separate discussion; even if we conclude that porn is bad or harmful to people, it doesn't necessarily follow from that that it must be illegal. There are plenty of bad/harmful things that are legal. The matter at hand is whether society should, as a moral matter, frown upon pornography because of the instrumentalization of people: porn depicts sexual desire as desiring sexual sensations. Many people think sexual desire should instead be seen as a desire for a *person,* not merely their body. Porn has made the former idea into a commodity, and has spread it quite widely. Now, you might not think this is bad, but many people--from feminists to conservatives--have good reasons for disapproving of it.
@disagree: the genders of the porn-actor and porn-watcher do matter when we're discussing feminism. if all sexes are being treated equally, we're no longer discussing whether a particular action is sexist or not. you may object to it on some other moral grounds, but not on feminist grounds.