In the days after my last column, "How to be a feminist without anyone knowing" appeared, I experienced dozens of pleasant surprises: I had no idea that Princeton was teeming with feminists, some of them keeping their feminism ...(back to the article)
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A lot of the time, porn stars are imperfect, implant scars, and all that. They aren't perfect, or even that attractive most of the time, and I think a lot of guys realize that they aren't realistic. I'd be more concerned with the way men react to celerities..."real" people. But girls are just as guilty of judging each other as men are of judging us. It's vicious cycle that takes both sides to stop. If anything, porn is bad for women because it gives guys a HORRIBLE sense of what gives women pleasure. Sometimes they don't even look like they enjoy it. When they do...believe me, they're probably faking it. And it's true, there are tons of different "fetishes" or preferences to meet the tastes of the many porn watchers out there. Not every man is in to the super skinny girl with big boobs and blonde extensions. Porn doesn't HAVE to degrade women, it's just unfortunate that much of it these days does.
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wow... if my guy was into watching granny porn i'd be a little weirded out. not judging, but seriously, granny porn?
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I would just like to point out that I have heard some of the things that this author has said about men, which lends to her article being a blunder of hypocrisy. A second comment. Not all men masturbate to porn or skinny young beautiful women. The author does not take into account the "granny" and "chubby" galleries featured on many popular pornographic websites.
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Nickname, you're totally, absolutely right. I was a bit shocked that Chloe expressed the view that her particular vision of male sexual behavior is true for all or many men. It may be true of her male friends, but if she hung out with a more diverse group of people (or if she did a bit of research), she'd find that porn is not something all guys are into, for a variety of reasons. It makes absolutely no sense that she would try to help the cause of feminism by viewing men in the same way anti-feminists view women.
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I agree with Gf of Feminist Guy--this editorial provides a seriously limited view of what it means for a man to be feminist. There is much more to it than recognizing real women have freckles, etc. True, both men and women need to be able to differentiate between real and fake women and should value the real ones, but feminism goes beyond that. The article is missing so much about breaking down gender roles for men and females alike. Plus, Chloe is furthering gender stereotypes with the language of this article. Tying men to porn, March Madness and Catherine Zeta Jones is dangerously similar to tying women to lipstick, shoes, and kitchen appliances.
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dude, freckles are so f'in hot, please don't hide them
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I'm unimpressed by your particularly narrow definition of feminism--if feminism is truly a doctrine that empowers *all* women, and not just a particular group of them, it should not involve a partisan vision of what women *should* be. It should embrace any lifestyle women choose--even if it's more of a traditional, stay-at-home variety. Women can do whatever they want. If they decide to be homemakers, they shouldn't have to put up with people suggesting that by doing so, they're "not making a contribution to society," or that they're "not intelligent." Being a mother, like being a father, is as important and utterly admirable of a job as any, and I fail to see why working at a desk in an office building is seen as somehow more empowering, or how two lifestyles can even be compared in that way.
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@disagree: the genders of the porn-actor and porn-watcher do matter when we're discussing feminism. if all sexes are being treated equally, we're no longer discussing whether a particular action is sexist or not. you may object to it on some other moral grounds, but not on feminist grounds.
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The gender of a porn-user doesn't change the ethical situation at hand. Also, issues like monetary compensation, the consensual status of sex, or equal-opportunity exploitation have no role in the discussion here. They're side issues, and have no bearing on whether or not pornography itself is wrong or right. Girl and Board, I think what you're talking about here is the issue of whether or not pornography should be *legal.* That's an entirely separate discussion; even if we conclude that porn is bad or harmful to people, it doesn't necessarily follow from that that it must be illegal. There are plenty of bad/harmful things that are legal. The matter at hand is whether society should, as a moral matter, frown upon pornography because of the instrumentalization of people: porn depicts sexual desire as desiring sexual sensations. Many people think sexual desire should instead be seen as a desire for a *person,* not merely their body. Porn has made the former idea into a commodity, and has spread it quite widely. Now, you might not think this is bad, but many people--from feminists to conservatives--have good reasons for disapproving of it.
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i'm a girl. i watch porn. how do you plan to deal with that, "Disagree"? i agree with "Board"... porn objectifies both sexes, and as long as it's consensual, there's no exploitation going on. anytime you see a movie and say, wow [insert favorite movie star here] is so hot in this, you are objectifying that person. how is it any worse if that person happens to be nude? the "actors" have agreed to perform and are being compensated fairly.
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Disagree, why do you think porn disrespects women more than men? I'd say it's pretty equal.
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I couldn't agree more with Disagree. When women use their body as "a source of gratification," men may get the wrongheaded notion that sex can be fun and pleasurable for both partners. This may confuse men into forgetting that God has decreed that sex is only for baby-making and all other reasons to have intercourse and/or use positions other than missionary style is inherently sinful.
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I disagree with Chloe here -- I don't think there's any room in a feminist mindset to allow pornography. True feminism should condemn pornography because it encourages men to envisage women as primarily sexual, and only secondarily objects of more meaningful care. Even worse, porn portrays women being instrumentalized...having their bodies used as a source of gratification. It's always unethical to "use" people's bodies for things like this, because there's much more to a person than her body. Keep in mind, too, that the vast majority of pornographic actresses were sexually abused at some point, and pornography only serves to increase that.
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John, I think you make some good points. But I don't think you need to make it a battle between which sex is most constrained to traditional roles. The truth is, we all are and it's unfortunate. And I think Chloe may have inadvertantly pereptuated that problem with this column.
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Chloe, you ignored most of the comments on your last article--only TWO people commented to say that men can be feminists. Most of the comments were from men who felt pressured to fit into gender roles--and no women were addressing this. Why should men let women break stereotypical gender roles when MANY women still expect men to be the primary breadwinner in the family; to go to war; to withstand more pain than perhaps women would be expected to withstand; to not hit women (hitting is wrong in all cases, but TV shows frequently show women hitting men as something acceptable...i.e. everybody loves raymond, seinfeld)...not all women think like this at all, but many more women constrain men into gender roles than men constrain women...in the US at least.
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Couldn't you say all of those exact same things about how men feel pressured to fit into the popular-culture driven stereotype of what a contemporary man should look like and act like? By talking about this purely in terms of women, you are perpetuating dangerous and misleading gender stereotypes. By ignoring a goal of equality of the genders, you are being essentially anti-Feminist.
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My man is the best feminist I know! Wouldn't have it any other way. Also, Chloe, I think you have erred in reducing male feminism to understanding the difference between porn and reality. There's so much more to it (duh). A male feminist needs to support his significant other's career, treat her as the intellectual equal that she is, share familial decision-making, and so much more. Anyway, I think, as you've recognized, these guys are actually quite prevalent at Princeton, even if they don't shout out of their gothic dorms "I am a feminist!"
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